Can the FDA Assure Safety and Security of the Food Supply? Part 2 hearing

TUESDAY, JULY 17, 2007

Diminished Capacity: Can the FDA Assure the Safety and Security of the Nation's Food Supply? – Part 2
Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations
9:30 a.m. in room 2123 Rayburn House Office Building
Witness List
Connect to the Video Webcast (100 kbps)
http://energycommerce.house.gov/membios/schedule.shtml

Witness list:
http://energycommerce.house.gov/cmte_mtgs/110-oi-hrg.071707.Witness%20List.pdf

Thanks to reader Mike for staying on top of this.
I'm of course hoping that someone will ask them timeline questions.

Also I'm hoping for some
"What did you know and when did you know it?" questions (It always seems to come back to that, doesn't it...)

As I've reminded people, the FDA has no recall power, except for baby formula.
So faced with a new problem (chickens and hogs that ate melamine and c-acid laden pet food) the FDA decided that instead of telling Big Chicken and Big Pig to recall the chickens and pigs, they "worked closely with industry" and created a risk assessment report based on, how shall I say this politely, weak science.

And guess what, the risk assessment said, "Sure send it out to the humans, based on old data from other species and not on any actual current feeding tests, the probability is low that it won't be a problem." Hey America, how does it feel to be Big Chicken's guinea pig? Would have been nice if we could have known when we were being used as a guinea pig right? So we could say, "I don't trust your "risk assessment" please tell me which chickens were the ones I ate.

But I always wondered, if it wasn't a problem then why didn't they tell us the NAMES of the big chicken farm that sold the chickens? Why didn't they say, "The chicken is as safe as houses based on our "risk assessment" so the company that is selling it to you is ____________."?

BTW, I'm pretty sure I know which one of the Big Chicken players it is, but of course after I alerted the advertisers to the violent rhetoric of the talk radio people and they shut down my blog and threatened me I have no desire to expose myself to the censorship games of yet another multi-billion dollar industry. (Hey, maybe I should tell people if they send me a self addressed stamped envelop along with $100 bucks then I can say, "You didn't hear it from me." )

Here's my questions that they won't get to because I don't have any real power (aka lobbyists whispering into my ear).

Did Big Chicken put the pressure on the FDA to create this "risk assessment" so that they could get the USDA stamp so they could sell to humans? What role did Big Chicken and Big Pig have in this process of determining the safety of the food that they probably didn't want to cull? Was that contact appropriate?

I wonder how they will respond. I mean it's not like they need to lie if you asked them. I'm sure they would just say that they were "working closely with industry". Say for example Big Chicken called the FDA and said, "Create a test so I don't have to kill 20 million chickens and 56,000 hogs." Would it be WRONG of them to suggest that? I'm sure that it would be seen as just a suggestion and it's not like they are trying to intimidate the FDA. I do wonder if there are some rules and guidelines that they are breaking-- maybe Lisa Shames and the wonderful folks at the GAO could tell us.

NOTE: We don't use the precautionary principle here. Therefore looks like we are going the China route. So I guess the rule is "If it's not EXPLICITLY going to kill you, go ahead and put it in. And then, if later, we find out that it DOES kill people, well then we'll stop."

I do hope one of the fine reps asks about the process of creating the risk assessment, and then asks, "Who's chickens were they and then where did those chickens and pigs get sent to?"

I'm sure they have a good answers, the best money can buy.

Updated and edited, draft was posted first. I blame Haloscan.

Calling Scientists and Mathamticians! Use your Skills! Help Save Lives!

Gina at Pet Connection did a great translation and analysis of the peer review results of the risk assessment document created by the FDA so that the USDA could give approval to Big Chicken and Big Pig to release the chickens and pigs into the human food supply.

DMS in comments makes the stunningly clear comment that I was going to make:

I think we need to keep in mind that the FDA/USDA released all of the chickens, eggs and Pigs for processing and sale before they even had their assessment peer-reviewed. Where else, but in the American government, would that happen?

Comment by DMS — June 13, 2007 @ 10:36 pm

This is at the heart of the issue. Big Chicken and Big Pig wanted a reason they could use to get the USDA to release their chicken and hogs into the human food supply. They got it. And it's not even really a test. It's a RISK ASSESSMENT. They are creating probabilities based on assumptions in lieu of hard data. And guess what? There were no mathematicians on the peer review list. Surprised? I'm not.

Calling Superstar Mathamtician, John Allen Paulos. Also known as:"Mathamtician to the Media" For my money, Paulos is the best explainer of math and stats in the business.

John Allen Paulos to the Blue Spocko Courtesy phone. John Allen Paulos to the Blue Spocko Courtesy phone.

3.5 million chickens went out because someone took recalled pet food known to kill animals and fed it to chickens. Maybe that food could be excused, it was the first batch that went to humans.

(BTW, somewhere out there a odd lots person(s) who said, "Hey, I can pick up this food for pennies and sell it for dimes. Why is it so cheap? Who cares!" Hey buddy that "food" killed thousands of pets and tens of thousands more, and now you are going to feed it to the animals I eat? Thanks a lot, jerk.)

I want some OTHER scientists to look at this and speak plainly about this (and about your peer's peer review if you don't mind.) I know that some of you have less at stake than getting the call from the FDA to do more paid (?) peer reviews, so maybe you can be a bit more... blunt. After all, it's your life this time, not just some pets.

And speaking of mathematicians like John Allen Paulos, (who is one of my favorite writers on math, the media and humor) Listen to explodinghed, another commenter at Pet Connection.

risk assessment is simply a way of appearing to make responsible decisions without actually doing that. it’s been going on in business for a very long time. this peer review was less of a whitewash than i expected it to be, but i’m not surprised that they reached the conclusion that fda’s actions were “reasonable”. i’m sure that everyone involved knew what their assignment was.

note that there are no PhD level mathematicians on this panel. not for nothing, but in more than a decade of working on biological research projects and water analysis projects, i was rather shocked to realize that in general, the scientists with whom i worked were almost uniformly terrible mathemeticians, and in many cases not even good scientists.
[snip]
Comment by explodinghed — June 14, 2007 @ 5:13 am

(btw, I'm not going to fault him or her for their spelling and capitalization, this is not a peer reviewed blog...)

So if you want to check out the risk assessment on the contaminants that that went into 23.5 million chickens and 56,000 hogs read it here. (Link)

If you then want to comment go here:
Docket: 2007N-0208 - Draft Melamine and Analogues Safety/Risk Assessment; Availabiity [sic] (link to comment form)

Finally, here is the big thing to remember. If this food is NOT safe to eat, you Can NOT avoid it even if you want to. Why? Because the FDA/USDA will NOT tell you who put these 23.5 million chickens into your food supply.

What would have happened if the peer review panel said: "This is a TERRIBLE risk assessment. This should NOT be used to justify sending 20 million chickens and 56,000 hogs into our food supply."?

Nothing. Why? Because the chicken has flown the coup. The hogs are now your bacon.

So now that the risk assessment peer review has declared it "reasonable" (by some hand picked scientists ) can they tell us the names of the chicken farms that sold the chicken to us? Why not?
What is their fear? Don't they trust their scientists? Don't they think that they are reasonable?

If they don't tell us the names of the farms and tell us WHERE the food went then we know that they don't believe their own data. But they are willing to make us the guinea pigs because their first and foremost purpose is not as stated:

FDA's Former Mission Statement

The FDA is responsible for protecting the public health by assuring the safety, efficacy, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, medical devices, our nation’s food supply, cosmetics, and products that emit radiation. The FDA is also responsible for advancing the public health by helping to speed innovations that make medicines and foods more effective, safer, and more affordable; and helping the public get the accurate, science-based information they need to use medicines and foods to improve their health.

The New FDA Mission Statement?

The FDA is responsible for protecting the public health profits of corporations by assuring the safety of their food. The FDA provides the public information that the corporations deem useful for consumers to consume the foods that are being sold to them.

Spocko Needs a Comedy Break: 20 Million Plastic Chickens Recall Edition

I told Interrobang this recall is pooping me out. My Vulcan Spidey sense knew this was going to be huge. Today from Associated Press.
20 million chickens may have eaten tainted feed
Poultry must be assessed by government before it’s processed, USDA says
(link)
A few headlines I expect to see this week:

“There are diluted lethal chemicals in your chicken! We won’t tell you which brands until after the sports and weather from Sunny Storm!”
- Kent Brockman EyeWitlessNews

“The crap that killed your kitty in is your chicken cutlet! When deaths go up by 30 percent you’ll be the first to know which brands!” Action News 7

“Is your pappy pooped? Can’t pee? Passed out? Passed on? Call the CDC and let us know, you might be the winner in the 2007 food lottery!” (You might already be a winner! Residences of the Utah and Indiana need not enter, you have already been entered.)

If you are a time traveler and coming from a future where this stuff killed humans and you feel that this is in bad taste, please forgive me. Note the date. Right now, I don't know of any humans that have died from this. Acute Renal Failure? Not in this timeline, that I know of. I really want to believe that the FDA is thinking of our health first so I can joke about something that hasn't happened yet. In this timeline, I still have hope the FDA will do the right thing. I really don't want to have to call all the Chicken Farms in America.

For the chicken farmers? Consider this good practice for future avian flu outbreaks.
For the people who are supposed to have implemented the Import Security Plan but haven't actually implemented it, consider this good practice.
If you are in the DHS bioterroism unit, again, consider this good practice, time to test your chops.

CEOs for Menu and ChemNutra Testify

Paul Henderson, CEO Menu Foods and Stephen Miller, CEO ChemNutra Testimony before the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, April 24, 2007 (video Link)

I was hoping I could use this video to illustrate some conflict between their House testimony, under oath, with what we know now. I didn't spot any yet, but all you recall bloodhounds are welcome to have at it.

But what struck me watching this: Note the excuses. Maybe they just apply to legal property, pets.

The same excuses can't be applied to humans... or can they?

The FDA refuses to tell us the names of the farms that raised the chicken that millions of us ate. If we knew who those farms were we could ask them. "Who did you sell those chickens too?" But it looks like the FDA is applying the same logic to the chickens that Menu and ChemNutra applied to the feed that they got.

"Is there any way we know then if other wheat gluten, or other products or other things have been intentionally altered? You don't know until after the fact? Right" -Rep. Stupak

"There wasn't a testing protocols for identifying it." -Henderson, CEO Menu Foods.

But there is now.

"Before this incident did you ever do any testing of any of the products that came from China?" -Rep. Stupak

"No, there was no known issue to test for."- Miller, CEO ChemNutra

But there is now.

ChemNutra had confidence in the company, but they didn't do any testing.
Do we have confidence in the FDA? Did they do the testing for us or just say, "Well there haven't been a lot of extra deaths from eating chicken so our guess, based on this dilution effect theory, is working."

Remember in the movie 2001 where the killer computer, Hal, decided that they should just let a component fail instead of replacing it first? I guess the plan is to do the same with humans as we did with pets

FDA to Humans: "Let 'em eat Chicken."


If humans start dying, well then we'll tell you who sold you that tainted chicken.

All this talk about dilution effect would be more credible if they had some sample results they could show us. And maybe some tests to look at. They are already experimenting on humans, maybe a few rats could be tested while we are waiting.

Oh, and anyone want to talk about the accumulation effect? Think second-hand smoke or asbestos or even pions from Mad Cows. How much do you have to eat until you get sick or die? We don't know for sure, but when it happens, call us.

The good news? I understand we can buy some human kidneys on the black market in China....

FDA: Chickens fed melamine tainted feed in the Human Food Supply

From the Baltimore Sun article:

38 poultry farms in Indiana received contaminated feed in February.

All broiler chickens fed the feed have been processed, and breeding birds are now under quarantine, according to the FDA and Agriculture Department. There is no evidence that eating chickens fed the feed would harm humans, so the agencies said they are not recalling any products made from the processed poultry.

WHAT THE FRAK?! Pardon my human English, but did I read this right? They have decided for us that the chickens are fine. Based on what evidence?

Have they fed some humans the products and tested them to see what happens to their kidneys? Did they decide that it's too late because people have already eaten this and nobody died?

I'd like to know if the chicken kidneys I'm eating contain the stuff that killed my cat! Then I can decide not to eat it.

The pets that were fed these products didn't die instantly. The chemical built up in their systems. Now we all know how fast they grow and kill chickens these days. They might have killed the sick chickens who didn't die yet, but were on the verge of dying. Would they even have noticed? And they will use the same "the melamine is diluted so you are safe" line that they used with the pigs.
Questions:

• Could they please show us the LEVEL of melamine in the chickens?
• Whose chicken farms were these?
• Where did the food end up?
• What are the names of the brands? What date were these shipped to stores?
• Which "products" did this go into?
• Was it in my TV dinner? Fresh chicken? Chicken Noodle Soup?
  

Let me decide to take the risk. I might disagree with your analysis of the risk, but I can't chose not to eat it if I don't know what is in what I'm eating.

Live Long and Prosper is my line, with this I might have trouble!

Spocko